4 cyl head gasket problems?
#1
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
4 cyl head gasket problems?
I have a 2003 Grand Am SE with the 2.2L 4 cyl that I am selling. A gentleman that just looked at it shied away when he saw the four cylinder engine. He told me they were prone for head gasket problems at around 100,00 miles. This car has 110,545 miles. Should I be concerned about this and what exactly is the problem (if any). I do not see any coolant leaks around the head and the oil is clean with no milky residue.
#2
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Sounds like he'* living on anecdotes in my opinion. They can and have had some head gasket issues, however, it'* not like a head gasket is a wear item that gets tired at around 100,000 miles. In his mind, is it 100,000 miles in the city or on the highway? In cold weather or hot? At low altitude or high altitude? All of these would drastically affect the "100,000-mile rule".
This has a lot more to do with how the car has been treated in its life and other contributing factors to overheating, such as a stuck thermostat or bad fan that somebody ignored too long. If you've had yours for a while and it maintains its temperature well then it is okay. If it gets to 115,000 or 155,000 or 310,000 miles then overheats really bad then it'll probably need a head gasket.
That having been said, if I were looking to buy one of these with a 4 cylinder, I'd look closely at it to see if a head gasket has been done on it and watch the temperature closely as I test drive it.
The thing with 4-cylinders like these is: If it has a head gasket go bad (usually due to overheating/abuse/etc.), it'* a lot easier and cheaper to diagnose and replace the head gasket than it is on a V6. So much easier that a surreptitious owner might be able to cheaply (have someone?) slap a head gasket in and sell it without repairing related issues such as a warped or cracked head. On a V6 it'* much more complicated and costly to the point that it would be cost- and ability-prohibitive and they'd be less-likely to put the resources into a repair.
Sounds like your potential buyer is aware enough to know kind of what to be aware of. That having been said, the potential buyer could have asked "four cylinders or six" before arranging to look at the car with you and saved both of you some time. And me too, come to think of it.
This has a lot more to do with how the car has been treated in its life and other contributing factors to overheating, such as a stuck thermostat or bad fan that somebody ignored too long. If you've had yours for a while and it maintains its temperature well then it is okay. If it gets to 115,000 or 155,000 or 310,000 miles then overheats really bad then it'll probably need a head gasket.
That having been said, if I were looking to buy one of these with a 4 cylinder, I'd look closely at it to see if a head gasket has been done on it and watch the temperature closely as I test drive it.
The thing with 4-cylinders like these is: If it has a head gasket go bad (usually due to overheating/abuse/etc.), it'* a lot easier and cheaper to diagnose and replace the head gasket than it is on a V6. So much easier that a surreptitious owner might be able to cheaply (have someone?) slap a head gasket in and sell it without repairing related issues such as a warped or cracked head. On a V6 it'* much more complicated and costly to the point that it would be cost- and ability-prohibitive and they'd be less-likely to put the resources into a repair.
Sounds like your potential buyer is aware enough to know kind of what to be aware of. That having been said, the potential buyer could have asked "four cylinders or six" before arranging to look at the car with you and saved both of you some time. And me too, come to think of it.
#3
Senior Member
I would not say prone to, either......the one thing that I did notice, was the possibility of a chain noise, due to tensioner problems......if neglected, and it gets bad enough, then idle is affected, and if really bad, then it could jump time....
Last edited by Tech II; 03-28-2019 at 09:31 PM.
#4
Senior Member
Forgot to mention, this is an interference engine......so as an FYI, if you start to hear a timing chain noise, get it fixed immediately....I believe there was a TSB, where the oil orifice had a check valve, that lubed the chain....it could plug.....there was a service kit that included, chain, orifice, and drive parts....
#5
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
Thread Starter
I did have all that information in the for sale ad. I think he spoke to his "mechanic" sometime between our phone conversation and his visit this morning, still he could have called and cancelled. Sometimes people hear about something that "happened to a friend" of theirs and it scares them away for that particular car, engine, etc. I bought this car to resell and it has nor had no engine issues. It needed three of the window regulators replaced and two tires, along with several cosmetic issues, interior trim, etc. The engine was clean, other than dusty. I gave it a wash and have not noticed any leaks of any kind. Oh well, he is interested in my 2001 Grand Am GT because it has a V-6! I was working on the rear brakes but he wants me to call him when it'* ready.
BTW, I am trying to determine if the ABS system is working properly on the GT. It seems to come on earlier than I like, at about half pedal whether brakes are applied hard or soft. You can feel a definite rapid pulsation in the pedal as soon as it gets about halfway down while braking. I drove it tonight and did several "panic stops" and the ABS seems to work okay, the wheels do not lock up and you can feel the system working. It stops in a straight line on dry pavement, and the ABS light does not come on. As a side note, I replaced all four wheel hubs because one was making a noise. I couldn't really tell which one it was, and I found a good deal on a set of four so I replaced them all. I also replaced the pistons/adjuster for the parking brake as it seemed to be dragging, I also adjusted the shoes according to the Haynes manual. The shoes are in good shape. I'm not even sure if this was necessary, and it doesn't seem to have made much difference. I don't know if this is considered normal operation of the ABS or do I need to look further. I have also replaced the front pads and had the rotors turned. Pedal is firm and even. I also did a vacuum booster test by pushing on the pedal and starting the car. Pedal went down just slightly as it should and holds. I also bled all four wheels even though I did not open any of the lines during the brake pad install. Does anyone else out there have a similar model that could tell me how their ABS system feels?
BTW, I am trying to determine if the ABS system is working properly on the GT. It seems to come on earlier than I like, at about half pedal whether brakes are applied hard or soft. You can feel a definite rapid pulsation in the pedal as soon as it gets about halfway down while braking. I drove it tonight and did several "panic stops" and the ABS seems to work okay, the wheels do not lock up and you can feel the system working. It stops in a straight line on dry pavement, and the ABS light does not come on. As a side note, I replaced all four wheel hubs because one was making a noise. I couldn't really tell which one it was, and I found a good deal on a set of four so I replaced them all. I also replaced the pistons/adjuster for the parking brake as it seemed to be dragging, I also adjusted the shoes according to the Haynes manual. The shoes are in good shape. I'm not even sure if this was necessary, and it doesn't seem to have made much difference. I don't know if this is considered normal operation of the ABS or do I need to look further. I have also replaced the front pads and had the rotors turned. Pedal is firm and even. I also did a vacuum booster test by pushing on the pedal and starting the car. Pedal went down just slightly as it should and holds. I also bled all four wheels even though I did not open any of the lines during the brake pad install. Does anyone else out there have a similar model that could tell me how their ABS system feels?
#7
Senior Member
True Car Nut
And agree on the chain stuff.
#8
Senior Member
True Car Nut
I'll add that mechanics see the worst of the worst and sometimes without perspective.
If a given model of car has a 4-cylinder and 6-cylinder options and 75% of what comes into the shop has a 4 cylinder in it then it is easy to think that the 4 cylinder engine has the most problems . . . however . . . if 90% of that model was sold with the 4 cylinder and 10% with the 6, then the opposite would actually be true.
If a given model of car has a 4-cylinder and 6-cylinder options and 75% of what comes into the shop has a 4 cylinder in it then it is easy to think that the 4 cylinder engine has the most problems . . . however . . . if 90% of that model was sold with the 4 cylinder and 10% with the 6, then the opposite would actually be true.
#9
Senior Member
True Car Nut
BTW, I am trying to determine if the ABS system is working properly on the GT. It seems to come on earlier than I like, at about half pedal whether brakes are applied hard or soft. You can feel a definite rapid pulsation in the pedal as soon as it gets about halfway down while braking. I drove it tonight and did several "panic stops" and the ABS seems to work okay, the wheels do not lock up and you can feel the system working. It stops in a straight line on dry pavement, and the ABS light does not come on. As a side note, I replaced all four wheel hubs because one was making a noise. I couldn't really tell which one it was, and I found a good deal on a set of four so I replaced them all. I also replaced the pistons/adjuster for the parking brake as it seemed to be dragging, I also adjusted the shoes according to the Haynes manual. The shoes are in good shape. I'm not even sure if this was necessary, and it doesn't seem to have made much difference. I don't know if this is considered normal operation of the ABS or do I need to look further. I have also replaced the front pads and had the rotors turned. Pedal is firm and even. I also did a vacuum booster test by pushing on the pedal and starting the car. Pedal went down just slightly as it should and holds. I also bled all four wheels even though I did not open any of the lines during the brake pad install. Does anyone else out there have a similar model that could tell me how their ABS system feels?
#10
Senior Member
True Car Nut
I did have all that information in the for sale ad. I think he spoke to his "mechanic" sometime between our phone conversation and his visit this morning, still he could have called and cancelled. Sometimes people hear about something that "happened to a friend" of theirs and it scares them away for that particular car, engine, etc. I bought this car to resell and it has nor had no engine issues. It needed three of the window regulators replaced and two tires, along with several cosmetic issues, interior trim, etc. The engine was clean, other than dusty. I gave it a wash and have not noticed any leaks of any kind. Oh well, he is interested in my 2001 Grand Am GT because it has a V-6! I was working on the rear brakes but he wants me to call him when it'* ready.
Someone will buy the 4 eventually.