This should help you
#11
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: August 07 COTM....NEBF '06, CEBF '06 OHMM '06 ONBF '07 CEBF '07
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Originally Posted by EagleKammback
I don't know about you, but on my dad'* last truck, there was a ton of stuff at the bottom of the tank,
#12
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
Originally Posted by EagleKammback
I think I'll expand a little bit of this
#1) 1 gallon of gasoline at 100degF will shrink to 0.976 gallons (almost 2-1/2%) when cooled to 60degF, the supposed standard temperature for calibration. While I don't think the temperature of the gasoline in an underground tank changes very much on a day-to-day basis, there is the consideration of the tanker truck that has just dumped a warm load into the underground tank, and also the ambient temperatures that the gasoline is exposed to while in the above-ground portion of the pump itself.
Our friends north of the border (Canada) have temperature-compensated pumps, and I hear the big complaint is that since the average annual temperature in a lot of places is well below the 60degF standard, they are getting short-changed as compared to not having temperature correction.
#2) If the underground tank has not been maintained, there is also probably some significant water that has accumulated through condensation, settling to the bottom hopefully below the level of the pick-up tube. The unloading operation could also stir the water up in addition to the crud.
#3) Back in the early days when fuel pumps were first put into tanks, I was advised to keep at least a quarter-tankful to keep the fuel pump submerged so it would run cooler and last longer. I don't know if this is still valid advice, but I sure don't want to think about a hot fuel pump in a pool of gasoline!
#1) 1 gallon of gasoline at 100degF will shrink to 0.976 gallons (almost 2-1/2%) when cooled to 60degF, the supposed standard temperature for calibration. While I don't think the temperature of the gasoline in an underground tank changes very much on a day-to-day basis, there is the consideration of the tanker truck that has just dumped a warm load into the underground tank, and also the ambient temperatures that the gasoline is exposed to while in the above-ground portion of the pump itself.
Our friends north of the border (Canada) have temperature-compensated pumps, and I hear the big complaint is that since the average annual temperature in a lot of places is well below the 60degF standard, they are getting short-changed as compared to not having temperature correction.
#2) If the underground tank has not been maintained, there is also probably some significant water that has accumulated through condensation, settling to the bottom hopefully below the level of the pick-up tube. The unloading operation could also stir the water up in addition to the crud.
#3) Back in the early days when fuel pumps were first put into tanks, I was advised to keep at least a quarter-tankful to keep the fuel pump submerged so it would run cooler and last longer. I don't know if this is still valid advice, but I sure don't want to think about a hot fuel pump in a pool of gasoline!
#2 When was the last time you had water in your tank that you could attribute to contaminated fuel? If it were bad enough, there would be a public knowledge and media event regarding it from a particular station. Have you ever mixed gasoline and water? Have you ever observed how quickly they seperate? Pour vegetable oil in the sink to experience it on a safer less-smelly level.
#3 I already stated this above, if you read my replies. However, a hot pump in a pool of gasoline won't do much for several reasons. Gasoline has a flashpoint of 246 degrees F. And that'* only going to combust if there'* OXYGEN as well. But in this case, your fuel tank doesn't have sufficient oxygen to complete the combustion. Combustion requires 3 elements. FUEL, OXYGEN, and HEAT. Take one away, and it can't happen. Your automotive design Engineers are very good. They took away the oxygen part of the equation, and dramatically reduced the heat portion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combustion
There are many myths and misunderstandings on this topic.
#15
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
Perpetuating information on the internet like this serves several purposes:
1. It perpetuates potentially false information.
2. It costs someone else time to dispel the falsehood.
3. It costs everyone else that believes it time or money.
Do yourself a favor and:
1. Don't believe everything you read or hear.
2. Expand your mind and research the claims yourself to decide if they're truthful enough to be worthy of posting here.
3. Spend more time learning and less time on the net.
4. Question EVERYTHING at least at first.
1. It perpetuates potentially false information.
2. It costs someone else time to dispel the falsehood.
3. It costs everyone else that believes it time or money.
Do yourself a favor and:
1. Don't believe everything you read or hear.
2. Expand your mind and research the claims yourself to decide if they're truthful enough to be worthy of posting here.
3. Spend more time learning and less time on the net.
4. Question EVERYTHING at least at first.
#16
Senior Member
Certified Car Nut
My dad is a senior manufacturing engineer( and used to be a plant manager) for the Xerxes corporation. The largest underground fiberglass gas tank manufacturer in the US, among their other products. They've pretty much got the entire fiberglass market to themselves, and have been an industry leader for decades.
I've been inside tanks being built, and whatnot, i've moved their offices around by hand for carpet installation as well, i've read product info, and seen first hand.
There'* no membrane in there at all.... There really isn't much maintenance to them either, sure there are issues with rocks, bad digging, componentry put in the tanks, etc, but they have a long service life. As mentioned above, the ground temperature is pretty constant as well, these things are 2 feet from the surface either...
I don't really like to fillup when a tanker is there dropping his load, but if I have to fillup, i will. You have fuel filter for a reason too... My dad taught me this one, i figured he knows wtf is going on...
As mentioned, modern EFI fuel pumps are cooled by the liquid (this case gasoline) they're submerged in. running 1/4 full will pretty much guarantee even with sloshing, turning, etc it will be covered.
Although I could ask my dad any questions about this too if anyone is unclear about something..
I've been inside tanks being built, and whatnot, i've moved their offices around by hand for carpet installation as well, i've read product info, and seen first hand.
There'* no membrane in there at all.... There really isn't much maintenance to them either, sure there are issues with rocks, bad digging, componentry put in the tanks, etc, but they have a long service life. As mentioned above, the ground temperature is pretty constant as well, these things are 2 feet from the surface either...
I don't really like to fillup when a tanker is there dropping his load, but if I have to fillup, i will. You have fuel filter for a reason too... My dad taught me this one, i figured he knows wtf is going on...
As mentioned, modern EFI fuel pumps are cooled by the liquid (this case gasoline) they're submerged in. running 1/4 full will pretty much guarantee even with sloshing, turning, etc it will be covered.
Although I could ask my dad any questions about this too if anyone is unclear about something..
#18
PopaDopaDo
True Car Nut
Regarding #4, I believe that pumping in the slow mode will result in getting a more accurate gallons being pumped than in fast mode; ie in fast mode you will get less gas than the pump reads. I know this used to be the case years ago but I'm not sure on the modern pumps. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
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