But wouldn't jobs like that come only with time in company and real world experience?

yup most of the time. But unless you want to be stuck with a 30K or less a year job taking phone calls all day for 3-5years why you wait for one of those Jobs its best to change your job field now and get into something else that starting with paying more.

I mean you can grow Grass and make 80K a year. (not Weed)

Most of the high paying IT jobs people have now even on BC are people that have been doing it for a long time and got there nice 50K + job or they got lucky and got hired into one.

the other problem is that most of the type of jobs i want IE. Desk top support/hardware fixing. are going to Contractors that farm jobs other to people making 30K a year.

Iv already starting to try to think of what else i can get into making 30K a year starting right now. because i need at least that to just get by and pay my debt

As mentioned a couple times already in this thread, there'* a fine line between true IT and telephone support.

I encourage anyone interested to get into the field of IT, not telephone support. Bandit I'm one of the "lucky ones on BC" that you're referring to. Hard work, higher education, and dedication have gotten me into the higher paying IT job. No luck was involved, and I've only been in the undustry for 10 years.

To anyone that'* interested in getting into IT (and making good money), get the four-year degree from an accredited school. Read the industry publications so you can stay on top of the trends. And, apply for EVERY internship possible. Internships are the biggest stepping stone for getting hired into a corporation as an IT professional, upon graduation.

My experiences have been that companies don't promote IT individuals from within. It'* common practice to move around frequently in IT (1-2 years). That'* where you make the real money (15-25% pay increase with every move). Utilize the skills from each previous employer to leverage your success in the next opportunity.

I'm glad to hear you're optimistic, Darrel. There are PLENTY of IT jobs available. When the time comes, really focus on doing an internship. That will distinguish you from other grads competing for the same entry-level IT jobs. Work closely with your career advising department. PM if you're interested in hearing names of companies that actively recruited interns and graduates when I was at CMU (graduated in 2000).

Prove it to yourself that there are high paying jobs available. Do a search on indeed.com for "project manager detroit", "business analyst detroit", "network engineer detroit", "database administrator detroit", "C# developer detroit", etc. You'll find a plethora of opportunities. The industry is very alive and well.

And for others like me who can't afford "higher education", who can't get funding, and who were the first in thier family history to EVER finish high school:

Read, read, read: And sell yourself to potential employers.

And one VERY important note: Be ready to relocate. I wasn't ready, and that was my downfall.

*sigh* /rant on
After two years of self-education and job experience, I got job offers to the tune of 40-50k a year starting out. But they were in bigger cities, and I, being already married with a family, could not make that move. How did I get those offers? Word of mouth. Out of three networks I set up, one I managed, and several I offered opinions on setup (which were, of course, considered unorthodox), my networks never went down.

In the mechanical engineering aspect, again, I read books, educated myself, and am on the brink of starting my own invention lab. A mere three generations after my farmer family landed here from Czechoslovakia, I'm putting our name on the map.

I'm not beating my own drum here: My father, at the age of 14, ran away from his abusive, drunken parent home literally in the ghetto of Houston, TX. All of his friends, and all but one of his family are all dead. That'* the life in the ghetto there. At age 14, he watched a machinist do his work, walked in to the shop one day, lied about his age and got a job there, and machined for the next 23 years. (I do not condone lying about one'* age, he was 14 with no where to go.)

In 1989, his feet wouldn't allow him to stand anymore. What did he do? Buy books on computer workings and networking and taught himself. He became a computer science TEACHER in a well-known vocational school here, and is still a network admin for the medical network here in Kansas, and gets paid very well. He even wrote a program that the school later bought because, with this program, no matter how much a student fubar'* a computer, it will always return it to square one. This was in 1991.

What is "formal education"? An institute devised merely just over 100 years ago by Britain, and was modeled after the prison system. The prison system! Where did all our fundamentals come from then? Our understandings of electricity, of space, of most all of our current technology come from?

I'll tell you: From individuals who were self-taught, who were driven and energetic, and who were not afraid to think outside the box like most "formally educated" people are.

The bottom line is this: Formal education simply gives you a piece of paper that says you can do what you can do (which sometimes still isn't the case). With hard work, and determination, enthusiasm for self-education and a high degree of self-motivation, you can still get a well paying job with expertise tested by time and experience, which has to be well-respected because such ones truly care for what they do, rather than just doing something simply because it pays well.

Mathematical genius Srinivasa Ramanujan and Newton'* contemporary Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz were largely self-taught in mathematics. Galileo'* astronomical observations were not even taught in his day. And I can list many, many more examples.

Don't forget where our roots came from.


/rant off

Detroit Detroit Detroit

yes, one city.. oooo wow....
everyone doesn't want to live in detroit

look in Rochester. you will find like 5 Max. and those will all be taken buy the X Xerox or X kodak employees.

You also say work your way up. ok. there way Up to go here. there all Help desk jobs here.

You Say True IT... ummm yea... You know that you might have just insulted like a lot of people right?

anyway, if there are so many dam IT Jobs then hmmm why are they so hard to find and get. also if the industry is booming like you said then right now go and try to fine and NON programming NON manager or NON developer type IT JOB in Rochester.

Some thats looking to get into IT is not always looking to do one of those job because they dont like them. The field thats not doing well it where MOST of the people coming out of school want. the Hands on Fixing computer jobs and those are very hard to find and get.

the whole problem with this thread is that "IT" is like 20 diffrent Jobs in one. and not everyone can do even half of them. So yes. some IT job are plentiful and most others are not.

I have seen this same type of thread on Bigger forums that are more Computer tech type game forums and they ALL say don't bother trying to get into IT field its flooded.



And

TrueWildMan-

Very well Wrote. i wish i was that good at writing im 100% with ya. every person i see or have been around in IT jobs that has just School exp. in IT they dont know how to do crap. and when are pressed with a real problem will not know what to do.

Let'* not try to say those with a college degree are any less 'educated' or capable of doing their jobs than those that are self-taught. Many jobs require an education. My friend interned at IBM and got a job paying $50K right out of school. He'* been in the industry for ~4 years and is making $65K+. He wouldn't be where he is now if it wasn't for his education, and the fact that he is very smart and analytical.

For some companies, you don't need a college degree to be a graphic designer. But I guarantee your average hobbyist who just plays around in Photoshop or Illustrator and can use the programs, with no schooling in art, won't create the best work. You can create art/designs that look good. But there'* a difference when you know WHY something is good, rather than just whipping something up that you cannot even talk about.

/rant

I'm going to lock this thread. We're not getting anywhere.