80s Mercedes-Benz Turbo Diesels
12-29-2006, 11:57 PM
#11
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im with Hans although they are master pieces. they are very tedious and can turn into a money pitt fast.
heres a good source for parts, i know there a few cabbies using them and i have herd them say that they wish they had never bought them lol
http://parts.autopartsonlinecanada.c...odel=300-D-002
heres a good source for parts, i know there a few cabbies using them and i have herd them say that they wish they had never bought them lol
http://parts.autopartsonlinecanada.c...odel=300-D-002
12-30-2006, 12:11 AM
#12
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Originally Posted by Hans
My dad has owned 12 mercedes diesels since he bought one new in the late 70s. He currently ows an 81 300d and an 85 turbo 300d. Both have serious problems, the 81 needs a new trans badly, the 85 has issues with the valves, It needs most of the internals in the motor replaced due to issues with the improperly adjusted valves causing damage.
the 81 has 200,000 miles, the 85 has 300,000
currently my dad has invested a total of $6000 into the 81 including the cost of the car and it is worth maybe $2000...85 has had about $4000 invested, its worth around $2000 as well.
Both need to be repainted and have rust spots or fading on the paint.
the vaccum system is the BIGGEST problems with both cars as well, both have vaccum leaks.
The vaccum controls the door locks, shifting of the transmission, etc, so since the door lock does not work, the transmission starting failing and burnt up clutches because it could not shift correctly over time. This is all because one of the hundreds of plastic vaccum lines is broken or loose, but he cannot find the leak. Neither can 4 different shops so far.
both are money pits, my dad only buys them because they are "easy to work on" however both have problems which he cannot fix by himself in his garage.
Avoid them unless you get one for $500 or something.
the 81 has 200,000 miles, the 85 has 300,000
currently my dad has invested a total of $6000 into the 81 including the cost of the car and it is worth maybe $2000...85 has had about $4000 invested, its worth around $2000 as well.
Both need to be repainted and have rust spots or fading on the paint.
the vaccum system is the BIGGEST problems with both cars as well, both have vaccum leaks.
The vaccum controls the door locks, shifting of the transmission, etc, so since the door lock does not work, the transmission starting failing and burnt up clutches because it could not shift correctly over time. This is all because one of the hundreds of plastic vaccum lines is broken or loose, but he cannot find the leak. Neither can 4 different shops so far.
both are money pits, my dad only buys them because they are "easy to work on" however both have problems which he cannot fix by himself in his garage.
Avoid them unless you get one for $500 or something.
So I guess it all comes down to, if I get one, it should be low mileage and when I get it, I should replace just about every vacuum line in it. So basically if one were fully restored it would last a long time.
But I guess a phrase is replayed in my head. No car can withstand the ultimate test of time.
Oh well.
12-30-2006, 12:39 AM
#13
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Do research into HOW MUCH stuff is vaccum controlled. Instead of electronics they used a vaccum pump. Oh yeah....and rememeber the motor itself does not produce a vaccum like a gas engine, it uses a SEPERATE vaccum pump which also has failed on the 81.
The drivetrains on those cars are easily probably the most reliable ever produced but nothing else is.
Pneumatics, or air pressure control, is a common item in all cars. However, nobody uses it as extensively as does Mercedes-Benz. Many have used it only for off-on control of timing and emissions devices.
M-B has extended off-on control to the following items: Door locks (brought out in the '60s), seat back locks (two-door models), A/C mode door controls, door closing assist (pulls doors to final lock on '92 and up *-Class car doors and trunk), seat lumbar support controls and other devices, such as the position indicators that rise from the trunks of *-Class cars. Variable control also has been used for such things as cruise control, variable EGR control and intake manifold pressure regulation in turbo diesels.
Probably the most interesting of these variable controls are the ones that M-B uses for shift control in M-B diesels. It'* interesting because the engines have no manifold vacuum, actually having positive pressure most of the time in turbo-diesels (they run with small boost at constant highway speed). These vacuum-controlled transmission systems appeared in the first 300SD in 1978. That system was pretty simple. All subsequent systems added more layers of control. Variations of this system are on all M-B diesel automatic transmissions until electronic control took over in 1996.
The basic idea was to create a system that presented vacuum to a transmission modulator. The trick was to simulate the vacuum-to-load relationship in a gas motor. With a gas motor, under heavy load the vacuum would be low as the throttle would be fully open. These diesels have no throttle so there never is any vacuum; the only differences in manifold pressure occur during boost.
What makes this system so special is the variety of ways the system can be adjusted. The basic book adjustment might work for an out-of-the-box, by-the-book transmission. As it happened, M-B made numerous after-production changes to these transmissions. The combinations of pieces and the variety of wear conditions cause these transmissions to exhibit numerous offensive shift conditions. Among these, the number one condition in diesels is a harsh 1-2 shift. The next most common is a 3-4 shift flare. Others include double shifts into either 3rd or 4th, harsh 4-3 downshifts, and various shift overlap and sequence irregularities.
learn about google.
http://www.mercedesshop.com/Wikka/TransVacTune
The drivetrains on those cars are easily probably the most reliable ever produced but nothing else is.
Pneumatics, or air pressure control, is a common item in all cars. However, nobody uses it as extensively as does Mercedes-Benz. Many have used it only for off-on control of timing and emissions devices.
M-B has extended off-on control to the following items: Door locks (brought out in the '60s), seat back locks (two-door models), A/C mode door controls, door closing assist (pulls doors to final lock on '92 and up *-Class car doors and trunk), seat lumbar support controls and other devices, such as the position indicators that rise from the trunks of *-Class cars. Variable control also has been used for such things as cruise control, variable EGR control and intake manifold pressure regulation in turbo diesels.
Probably the most interesting of these variable controls are the ones that M-B uses for shift control in M-B diesels. It'* interesting because the engines have no manifold vacuum, actually having positive pressure most of the time in turbo-diesels (they run with small boost at constant highway speed). These vacuum-controlled transmission systems appeared in the first 300SD in 1978. That system was pretty simple. All subsequent systems added more layers of control. Variations of this system are on all M-B diesel automatic transmissions until electronic control took over in 1996.
The basic idea was to create a system that presented vacuum to a transmission modulator. The trick was to simulate the vacuum-to-load relationship in a gas motor. With a gas motor, under heavy load the vacuum would be low as the throttle would be fully open. These diesels have no throttle so there never is any vacuum; the only differences in manifold pressure occur during boost.
What makes this system so special is the variety of ways the system can be adjusted. The basic book adjustment might work for an out-of-the-box, by-the-book transmission. As it happened, M-B made numerous after-production changes to these transmissions. The combinations of pieces and the variety of wear conditions cause these transmissions to exhibit numerous offensive shift conditions. Among these, the number one condition in diesels is a harsh 1-2 shift. The next most common is a 3-4 shift flare. Others include double shifts into either 3rd or 4th, harsh 4-3 downshifts, and various shift overlap and sequence irregularities.
learn about google.
http://www.mercedesshop.com/Wikka/TransVacTune
12-30-2006, 01:02 PM
#14
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80'* Mercedes were some of the best built cars EVER. 80'* Bimmers aren't bad necessarily either, too many people here are basing an opinion on one member'* bad purchase.
That Merc will run forever, those engines are bullet-proof as well. However $3k is a rip. Think more like $1k.
That Merc will run forever, those engines are bullet-proof as well. However $3k is a rip. Think more like $1k.
12-30-2006, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Bonneville94V688
Apparently you didn't learn from my BMW ordeal. 
Hell, I own a Ford now and nobody has told me to leave.
12-30-2006, 04:47 PM
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The '83 you are looking at will be the W123 shape which is very old school and a borderline classic now. They're tough cars, you notice that there are a lot of them still on the road for their age. Much better than the rubbish M-B turns out now IMO. Merc build quality has gone way downhill in recent years.
However, I would go for the later W124 model (about '86 onwards IIRC). Still old school but drives more like a modern car.
Of course the only downside to these cars is that while they are built like tanks unfortunately they perform like tractors.
However, I would go for the later W124 model (about '86 onwards IIRC). Still old school but drives more like a modern car.
Of course the only downside to these cars is that while they are built like tanks unfortunately they perform like tractors.
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