upper intake gasket
06-22-2004, 12:50 PM
#11
Originally Posted by mkaake
i used the old intake...
the deal with that, my intake showed ZERO sign of wear from the EGR (how awesome is that??).
Hey, if you're opening up your motor anytime soon, do me a favor - measure how far the egr stovepipe is sticking out over the surface inside the upper. mine was over that edge by about 1/8th of an inch (at least) and the carbon buildup on it turned out to be the reason that it came out with the upper.
i could deff. understand that if a dimension changed, if that sucker wasn't sticking out far enough, it could really make things worse...
matt
the deal with that, my intake showed ZERO sign of wear from the EGR (how awesome is that??).
Hey, if you're opening up your motor anytime soon, do me a favor - measure how far the egr stovepipe is sticking out over the surface inside the upper. mine was over that edge by about 1/8th of an inch (at least) and the carbon buildup on it turned out to be the reason that it came out with the upper.
i could deff. understand that if a dimension changed, if that sucker wasn't sticking out far enough, it could really make things worse...
matt
I do find it interesting that your stovepipe came out with the upper intake. Maybe that was a design change, but mine was a very rigid fit into the lower intake.
06-22-2004, 01:55 PM
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Hi Matt sounds like the thing to do is wait for the new manifold to come out.
Did you measure the inside daintier of the stovepipe hole in the lower manifold, and the OD of the stovepipe?
Did you measure the inside daintier of the stovepipe hole in the lower manifold, and the OD of the stovepipe?
06-22-2004, 02:01 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by vital49
Originally Posted by mkaake
i used the old intake...
the deal with that, my intake showed ZERO sign of wear from the EGR (how awesome is that??).
Hey, if you're opening up your motor anytime soon, do me a favor - measure how far the egr stovepipe is sticking out over the surface inside the upper. mine was over that edge by about 1/8th of an inch (at least) and the carbon buildup on it turned out to be the reason that it came out with the upper.
i could deff. understand that if a dimension changed, if that sucker wasn't sticking out far enough, it could really make things worse...
matt
the deal with that, my intake showed ZERO sign of wear from the EGR (how awesome is that??).
Hey, if you're opening up your motor anytime soon, do me a favor - measure how far the egr stovepipe is sticking out over the surface inside the upper. mine was over that edge by about 1/8th of an inch (at least) and the carbon buildup on it turned out to be the reason that it came out with the upper.
i could deff. understand that if a dimension changed, if that sucker wasn't sticking out far enough, it could really make things worse...
matt
I do find it interesting that your stovepipe came out with the upper intake. Maybe that was a design change, but mine was a very rigid fit into the lower intake.
in any event, i think it was the carbon buildup on the egr stovepipe responsible for the pipe coming out with the upper - i later was able to pop it out, but it had to move up into the upper because of the carbon.
which makes an interesting aside: it wasn't pressed (or at least very hard) into the lower.
i think i may have stumbled onto something else, but won't know for sure for another day or so... but stay tuned - it might be big
06-22-2004, 08:45 PM
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alright folks, here'* the rundown....
what i know (and feel comfy sharin):
i'm pretty sure the gasket set i've got has been updated for the series III. almost positive. which explains the throttle body gasket that has never been present before. there'* more reasons, but unfortunately, i can't share them :(
what this does mean though, is that the gasket between the series II and III is completely interchangeable. leaving of course, the only obstacle between using the series III intake on the series II is the throttle body.
as it would happen, i found out most of this today, and then on advice from a friend, checked out clubgp... and wouldn't you know it, someone is trying to use an adaptor from zzp performance and see if it'll work in this application.
but again, other than the TB mounting, the series III is almost identical to the series II (at least, in the parts above the lower manifold - there'* some differences leading up to the TB itself, but nothing too major). the internal design is the same - it uses the same two piece setup that we find inside of our composite uppers...
which all means, very cool. if the TB issue can be overcome, the aluminum upper is actually cheaper by a decent amount than the composite - from gmpartsdirect, the price is 97 and change... not too shabby, considering the alternative.
wish i could offer more at this point, but i can't really do that
i'll see if i can get some more pics posted of the process soon so you guys can see what i had coming out, and the new gasket going in.
matt
what i know (and feel comfy sharin):
i'm pretty sure the gasket set i've got has been updated for the series III. almost positive. which explains the throttle body gasket that has never been present before. there'* more reasons, but unfortunately, i can't share them :(
what this does mean though, is that the gasket between the series II and III is completely interchangeable. leaving of course, the only obstacle between using the series III intake on the series II is the throttle body.
as it would happen, i found out most of this today, and then on advice from a friend, checked out clubgp... and wouldn't you know it, someone is trying to use an adaptor from zzp performance and see if it'll work in this application.
but again, other than the TB mounting, the series III is almost identical to the series II (at least, in the parts above the lower manifold - there'* some differences leading up to the TB itself, but nothing too major). the internal design is the same - it uses the same two piece setup that we find inside of our composite uppers...
which all means, very cool. if the TB issue can be overcome, the aluminum upper is actually cheaper by a decent amount than the composite - from gmpartsdirect, the price is 97 and change... not too shabby, considering the alternative.
wish i could offer more at this point, but i can't really do that
i'll see if i can get some more pics posted of the process soon so you guys can see what i had coming out, and the new gasket going in.
matt
06-26-2004, 02:22 PM
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Great info...!
This sounds promising, convert my series II intake to a series III
New Series III lower gasket, new series III upper intake , new series III upper intake gasket, and some??? tB adapter & gasket?
This sound correct?
New Series III lower gasket, new series III upper intake , new series III upper intake gasket, and some??? tB adapter & gasket?
This sound correct?
06-26-2004, 07:37 PM
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I do not know how to post this picture so here is the link!!!!!!!
http://users.adelphia.net/~raguirre/.../IMG_0012a.jpg
http://users.adelphia.net/~raguirre/.../IMG_0012a.jpg
06-26-2004, 07:55 PM
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Looks portable, Anyone know if there'* a reason a S3 wouldn't fit on my S1? I'd love to port that alum puppy, it would look better too. Badass if it can be done.
06-30-2004, 04:59 PM
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sorry for the delay - it'* been a busy week at work.
anyhew, i'm pretty sure (though i should really check) that the series I and II are incompatible from the get go, so I wouldn't be on it.
2) after a little bit of simple minded thinking, i realized that the gasket kit i got could not have been specifically for the series III... the TB on the series III is completely different (As noted before) than the series II.
this leaves 2 points for now:
1) the TB gasket has been changed. given the low stock of the upper intake manifold, i still find it likely that there is a change coming, since the gasket is so different from the stock.
2) that nice thick TB gasket they provide would be GREAT for making an adaptor plate between the series III upper and the series II TB - i imagine with a nice detailed drawing, a machine shop could fab up something for cheaper than the adaptor that the folks on club GP are using (for mating a series IV super with a LS1 TB, I believe),
i have access to the technical drawings for what is needed, but i'm afraid that would be overstepping my bounds as a gm employee... so i'll see if there'* anything i can do to aid in it, and possibly verify if someone else'* drawings are correct.
for the record, if you look at the series III upper (which i have been quite a bit lately
), you'll notice a little something that'* not present on our uppers around the throttle body. from what i can tell, that'* part of the gas system on the series III - it uses a return-less electronic fuel injection. and it also looks (from what i can tell) that it is merely mounted on the upper, and will not affect it at all if it'* not there.
so this is all pretty good news.
about the only problem i personally have is that the neck of the upper is a little longer, and in my engine compartment, the air intake doesn't leave too much room to begin with... so if i was to do this mod, i would deff. have to go with a custom air intake. it'* not too much longer, but the neck is prolly about an inch - inch and a half longer than the original upper - so be prepared. i'm not familiar enough with the bonnie to know if it'll need a custom air intake, but it'* prolly not a bad idea, if you were going to go to the trouble of doing this anyway.
oh, and again, the aluminum upper is some 97 dollars and change from gmpartsdirect
just something to smile about.
one last factual thingy mabober for today:
from what i'm seeing, the inner runners on the intake are still plastic, despite the aluminum main piece - in all of this, it appears that GM went for the most compatibility possible so it would have as little impact as necessary... which works out very well for us indeed.
and boy would that thing look nice if you could polish it up i've only seen one in person, and i don't remember if it'* a little too 'gritty' on the outside for polish or not, but mannnn would that be pretty...
i'll keep you guys posted if i find out more -
matt
anyhew, i'm pretty sure (though i should really check) that the series I and II are incompatible from the get go, so I wouldn't be on it.
2) after a little bit of simple minded thinking, i realized that the gasket kit i got could not have been specifically for the series III... the TB on the series III is completely different (As noted before) than the series II.
this leaves 2 points for now:
1) the TB gasket has been changed. given the low stock of the upper intake manifold, i still find it likely that there is a change coming, since the gasket is so different from the stock.
2) that nice thick TB gasket they provide would be GREAT for making an adaptor plate between the series III upper and the series II TB - i imagine with a nice detailed drawing, a machine shop could fab up something for cheaper than the adaptor that the folks on club GP are using (for mating a series IV super with a LS1 TB, I believe),
i have access to the technical drawings for what is needed, but i'm afraid that would be overstepping my bounds as a gm employee... so i'll see if there'* anything i can do to aid in it, and possibly verify if someone else'* drawings are correct.
for the record, if you look at the series III upper (which i have been quite a bit lately
), you'll notice a little something that'* not present on our uppers around the throttle body. from what i can tell, that'* part of the gas system on the series III - it uses a return-less electronic fuel injection. and it also looks (from what i can tell) that it is merely mounted on the upper, and will not affect it at all if it'* not there.so this is all pretty good news.
about the only problem i personally have is that the neck of the upper is a little longer, and in my engine compartment, the air intake doesn't leave too much room to begin with... so if i was to do this mod, i would deff. have to go with a custom air intake. it'* not too much longer, but the neck is prolly about an inch - inch and a half longer than the original upper - so be prepared. i'm not familiar enough with the bonnie to know if it'll need a custom air intake, but it'* prolly not a bad idea, if you were going to go to the trouble of doing this anyway.
oh, and again, the aluminum upper is some 97 dollars and change from gmpartsdirect
just something to smile about.
one last factual thingy mabober for today:
from what i'm seeing, the inner runners on the intake are still plastic, despite the aluminum main piece - in all of this, it appears that GM went for the most compatibility possible so it would have as little impact as necessary... which works out very well for us indeed.
and boy would that thing look nice if you could polish it up
i've only seen one in person, and i don't remember if it'* a little too 'gritty' on the outside for polish or not, but mannnn would that be pretty...i'll keep you guys posted if i find out more -
matt
07-08-2004, 05:14 PM
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Stopped by a local dealership on the way home today to see what I could learn. Got part numbers & some more info.
89017554 Revised upper intake gasket with TB gasket, TB gasket was now black in color. $23
12537197 Lower intake gasket, black and light blue in color. $17
89017272 Revised upper intake part number. Note on GM parts direct claims that this is the manifold only, no gaskets. $130
All prices are from gmpartsdirect.com dealer quoted list price mentioned at gmparts direct.
89017554 Revised upper intake gasket with TB gasket, TB gasket was now black in color. $23
12537197 Lower intake gasket, black and light blue in color. $17
89017272 Revised upper intake part number. Note on GM parts direct claims that this is the manifold only, no gaskets. $130
All prices are from gmpartsdirect.com dealer quoted list price mentioned at gmparts direct.