ECC reprogram ?
10-16-2006, 10:54 AM
#21
DINOSAURUS BOOSTUS
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92-99 all have the brace to my knowledge.
The actuator is replaced from under the dash..not through the glove. The glovebox is used for adjustment of the rod and visual inspection only. See General Chat for a topic about the battery unhooking theory I have.
The actuator is replaced from under the dash..not through the glove. The glovebox is used for adjustment of the rod and visual inspection only. See General Chat for a topic about the battery unhooking theory I have.
10-16-2006, 11:35 AM
#22
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The ECC flashing is a sign that the system has detected a failure.
If you can control where the air is coming out of (center vents, defrost, floor) and the only issue you are having is hot vs. cold, and you can see the rod from the airmix actuator having trouble when being driven to the left or right, your problem is either:
1. Failed Airmix Actuator (probably a broken drive gear in the acuator).
or
2. A binding airmix door (haven''t heard of one yet, it is usually the actgator gear)
Hot and cold are controlled by the air mix actuator driving the airmix door to blend hot and cold air thorugh the system. The airmix actuator is completely electronically gear driven. No vacuum is involved.
There is a recalbration procedure to insure the actuator rod is positioned properly on the airmix door connector (the white piece that the rod pops into that you can see through the hole in the glovebox), and occasionally this has been used with sucess.
If you can control where the air is coming out of (center vents, defrost, floor) and the only issue you are having is hot vs. cold, and you can see the rod from the airmix actuator having trouble when being driven to the left or right, your problem is either:
1. Failed Airmix Actuator (probably a broken drive gear in the acuator).
or
2. A binding airmix door (haven''t heard of one yet, it is usually the actgator gear)
Hot and cold are controlled by the air mix actuator driving the airmix door to blend hot and cold air thorugh the system. The airmix actuator is completely electronically gear driven. No vacuum is involved.
There is a recalbration procedure to insure the actuator rod is positioned properly on the airmix door connector (the white piece that the rod pops into that you can see through the hole in the glovebox), and occasionally this has been used with sucess.
10-16-2006, 12:06 PM
#25
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humm
Bill you must be a kingpin man, lol I still do not see how to get at the top screws from the bottom ?? Whne you remove the contraption with the hoses does that open it up ? Did you remove the heater core cover ? And you said the ones you did were the same as the 98'* ?? Man I wish you lived closer , lol
10-16-2006, 01:20 PM
#26
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Re: humm
Originally Posted by cvc
Bill you must be a kingpin man, lol I still do not see how to get at the top screws from the bottom ?? Whne you remove the contraption with the hoses does that open it up ? Did you remove the heater core cover ? And you said the ones you did were the same as the 98'* ?? Man I wish you lived closer , lol
Pulling the battery connection erases any memory in the electronics in your car. When you start your car after reconnecting the battery, and the ECC engages, it runs through a little self-calibration routine (I’ve watched this happen). During this routine it runs the door from cold to hot positions (stop-to-stop) so it knows where it is, then positions the door based on your thermostat setting and coolant temperature (for heat). If your actuator has a cracked gear, the gear will slip on the shaft when the door hits the “stop” (fully open, or fully closed). When it sets the door for the temperature desired, it will be in the wrong position and the ECC will flash the error. Because the shaft slips on the gear, the ECC cannot calibrate itself properly.
If your air mix actuator is good, calibration is simple. You disconnect the actuator rod from the air mix door arm (pop it off with a screwdriver) and set your ECC temp to max heat. When the air mix actuator stops moving, push the air mix door arm toward the right side of the car until it stops. Connect the rod to the arm and you’re done.
If your actuator motor is faulty, calibration won’t do you any good. I think the 92-99 Bonnevilles are close enough in configuration that the procedures for changing the actuator should be applicable to all those years. The differences will be minor.
The contraption with the hoses is the HVAC Programmer. Yes, removing it will open a nice hole you can reach up into. Loosening the heater core cover will also increase the room to get your hand & tool up there to remove the screws holding the air mix actuator in place.
Get a replacement actuator from Billboost37 and change it yourself. Use the $130+ you save to buy 130+ Jr Bacon Cheeseburgers.
10-18-2006, 02:38 PM
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Re: update
Originally Posted by SSE Motorhead
Originally Posted by cvc
ok here is the latest. I took the glove box out and looked in the hole at the rod that opens and closes the mixing door. Here is what I came up with, in the fan high position the door goes to hot no problem, if you try to go down to cold it stops about half way, if you reach in with a screwdriver and give it just alittle push it continues all the way to cold. NOW; if you turn the fan setting to lowest spot and repeat the above all works fine. It is almost like maybe a vaccum problem or something doesn't hve enoug strength to push the door shut against a hi fan speed ? I see no way of getting at the motor that drives the rod at all without a sawzalll or chain sawing the dash out ! Wher is the vaccum line that operates that door ? Or where does it pull vaccum from ? There is no vaccum box next to the brake master cyl. The temp still flashes for awhile and then stops. This ALL started when my starter switch fried and I left the battery disconnected overnight. Never had this issue before. I hate to put alot of cash into a car with 200k plus miles but maybe its something simple ??
Thanks guys and lets hear some feedback !
Thanks guys and lets hear some feedback !
Given the above information, I'd be willing to bet Boosty'* pink slip that you have a failing air mix actuator. When the plastic gear inside the airmix actuator starts to crack, things get real sketchy with the ECC and it becomes rather unpredictable.
There is no vaccuum that goes to that motor, it'* all electric. If it'* stopping in mid-swing, the gear is slipping on the drive shaft. This may sound Greek to you, but if you check out the article on this link, you can see some pictures. You can change this motor without cutting, drilling, or removing the dash - the procedure is in the article. It'* a PITA at times, but can be done.
http://trialsnuts.com/ecc.pdf
10-18-2006, 02:44 PM
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Re: update
Originally Posted by SSE Motorhead
HA! Looks like Boosty gets to keep his car - problem was isolated to the air mix actuator. cvc'* drive gear was cracked in 3 places.
It was the obvious first place to start for those that have seen the gear crack and the symptoms it causes. Good job, gents.
10-18-2006, 04:07 PM
#30
Please contine this original topic instead of starting a new one:
That was taken from:
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...ic.php?t=64653
well its done and Bill was right its not bad at all. I bought the acuator thru a friend AC Delco 38.00 including tax part # 15-71923 and there is NO green mark on it at all and it does not come with the threaded arm. The 2 screws in the HVAC were no problem. I got at the upper with a snap-on 1/4"swivel on an extension,no problem. The wire block on the HVAC no problem. The vaccum block BIG problem the nipples all broke off inside so I threw the block away and cut the lines off the HVAC and put them together with short pcs of vaccum hose, again no problem. The connector on the acuator no problem,long screw driver just like directions said. I then pulled the 2 screws from the heater core box, mine were 5mm not 7 mm but again no big problem. Then I dropped the cover about 4" and took the acuator off again no problem. The hardest part was getting the back screw on the acuator in. You can do it by looking thru the glove box under the brace and just start it by feel then use a 1/4" rachet on the socket. the old acuators main gear was cracked in 3 places ! It now works like new ! I can't praise you guys enough or this site. Everything worked out great ! I can't believe how helpfull all of you are mostly Echo ( good talking to you ) Bill and SSE ( good talking to you too ) You guys are the best and this site is one of the best I have ever been on. Thanks again Ech,Stan<Bill and any others I may be forgetting !
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...ic.php?t=64653