Well, since the blower motorfor my car hasn't arrived yet ("special order" from GMPD ) I have been driving my wifes Bonneville on several longer trips to work. Now I notice the coolant level is a bit lower than it was. I guess that answers the question as to were the condensation is coming from. Since I did the UIM in Aug. I guess it must be the lower. God I hate to tear into that thing again

Yes I wanted to do my upper only when I did it this summer but the friends on the board insisted I do the lowers too along with the coolant elbow.
I am truly grateful for this advice, Vital, 57chevythunder, jrs3800.
Thanks

Hey guys..

Ranger...you may have a problem with your gaskets.

My problem is still alive and well! I just got home last night from a 1,900 mile trip. I drove to Sioux Falls, SD and back....left Sunday night. The car now has 96,000 miles and the white sludgy crap is getting more and more caked in the oil fill cap and filler neck. Every time I stopped for gas I checked the fluids and wiped out the cap and filler neck and it would reoccur at each 300 mile fill-up interval. The long trip obviously didn't cure it!

I think my issue is related to the thermostat. My gas mileage was only at 25-26 MPG and the engine temperature never raised up 150 degrees. I'm going to remove the thermostat today and see if it'* stuck open. If it is I'll replace it. If it'* not, I'm going back to the 195. My theory is that the block is never warming up completely and it'* resulting in condensation.

On the trip the coolant level never dropped at all.

Vital49,
I hate to say this but I think you are in denial (so was I). I am sure I will have to pull it apart again. If you are getting that white crap under the cap on a 1900 mile trip you have to be getting coolant into the crankcase. Even with a 195 dergee thermostat it would evaporate in 1900 miles.

SSEBONNE4EVA,
Yeah I was advised likewise. I think it was 57chevythunder but I took what I thought was the easy way out. Live and learn.

Now that I will eventually have to pull the lower, how does that elbow come out? Is it threaded into the lower or is it pressed in with an "O" ring seal. The manual isn't clear on that. I can't see how it could be screwed in as it goes through a hole in a bracket on the other end of the "L" and I can't even see where that goes. Is the a hose with a clamp on the other end? Do I have to remove that bracket? I'm going to try to nurse this thing til spring if I can.

On another note, I just changed the plug wires due to a misfire yesterday. I have no less than 6 cuts on my hands and blood drops all over the engine. You know, I used to like the 3800.

Sounds like you have some hand problems.. I only cut my hands 3 times in the whole disassembly of my heads/intake and stuff. It'll get easier once you have done it a few times.


-justin

Hi Ranger I am collecting parts to do the upper and lower manifold gasket replacement also.

The plastic elbow is GM # 24503423 and seals with an o-ring on each end $7.89+tax @ dealer. You need to pull the belt tensioner assembly to do the job right. There is another o-ring on the back side of the tensioner that will have to be replaced. If you use the Felpro lower gasket set # MS 95809 it comes with spare o-rings.
Check out these pictures from “mkaake” showing the difference between stock gaskets and Felpro replacements. I have no idea why GM put those 4 little notches in each coolant opening. Look at the pictures and you can see that is where the lower manifold gaskets fail.
If they would only upgrade the gaskets so that the rubber wrapped around the black plastic so that coolant can not come in contact with the plastic and eat it. The coolant ports, in the lower gasket set, should look like the 6-intake runner seals in the new upper gasket GM # 389017554.

http://www.mike.vcn.com/bonneville/gaskets.jpg

Here is another good link.

http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...ifold+pictures


PS.
Sure was nice of GM to leave that sharp edge on the O2 sensor to cut up our knuckles.
Will not work on the backside of the motor until I slip a piece of slit rubber hose around the O2 sensor. Also take pieces of vacuum hose and put it on any studs protruding from the firewall.

The local Wally-World now sells Kimberly-Clark “SAFESKIN” purple nitrile gloves. These come 40 to the box and cost about .10c each but sure do save the hands. Now if I can only remember to put them on before picking up a ratchet.

Ron.

The elbow comes out easily if you pry it out of the lower when removing the intake.
Then it simply comes right out of the tensioner. There are o-rings on each end supplied with the new one.
I think the 180 stat is too cold for northern states. New england temps. were 9 - 15 deg.
yesterday and my car struggled to get up to temp with the heat on high and all.

I did the lower gaskets when I did my upper intake manifold. It'* been 20K since I did it in May...I suppose they could have already degraded and are causing the white foamy stuff...but I just doubt it since the coolant level is ALWAYS dead nuts on.

I swapped out the 180 stat for a 195. Time will tell if the situation improves.

As for the coolant elbow, you do not have to remove the belt tensioner to access the by-pass elbow when doing the lower intake. If you're not doing the lower intake, then you do have to remove the belt tensioner. Since you are doing the lower intake gaskets there'* no sense in taking the belt tensioner off too.

if your oil looks clean with no condensationand you are not loosing coolant it may be the nature of the beast in winter.
This extended filler neck design stays cold and collects condensation that would normally be burned off in the warm engine.
I wonder if you installed a flat valve cover cap it would help burn off the moisture.

That brings up a good point. I never thought about that.